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Bryant’s Anniversary Series, Part 12: Later Interview with Avery — Admits Shooting Sally on the Bed!

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MARTIN AVERYMartin and John, 20 years after the offending interview

by Mary W Maxwell

Two months ago, Gumshoe published a 1996 interview that took place just as John Avery was taking over from David Gunson as attorney on the Port Arthur case. That article was aptly entitled “Every Aussie Lawyer Needs To Attend to the Gross Injustice of this Interview.”

On that occasion, John Avery clearly tried to suppress Bryant’s desire for a trial. But today we publish another chat between Bryant and Avery — with a very different tone. Here the prisoner cooperates with Avery in discussing how to tell the Court that he now remembers killing all those people!

As this is the third time Gumshoe readers have seen Bryant talking about the April 28, 1996 massacre, let me enumerate:

First, the Mike Willessee show this year surprised everyone by showing a supposedly lost or unusable video in which Bryant sits in front of a blue curtain being questioned by the police.

Martin answered all the police’s questions consistently. He eagerly described his handling of guns. He recalled his itinerary of April 28, which included surfing at Roaring Beach and dropping by Seascape but finding no one home.  Gumshoe published a large portion of that July 4, 1996 police interview.

Second, I learned that in 2006 The Bulletin had – as a “tenth anniversary of Port Arthur” reminder — published, unethically, the chat that took place when Solicitor Avery was “deciding” whether to “accept” Martin as a client.

(That’s the “gross injustice” interview.) I had no qualms about presenting it to the public, contra the man’s right to privacy, as it needs to be studied.

Third, I read in Stewart Beattie’s A Gunsmith’s Notebook, that there was a subsequent “consultation” between Avery and Martin. It is shown below, unabridged. It took place only eight days after the gross-injustice interview. Avery visits Bryant at Risdon and at this point Bryant appears to be almost a “new man.”

Bryant has come around to the idea that he did it, even saying it was thrilling, and amazes us all by saying that he and Glen Pears had talked all night at Seascape. Martin confesses that he killed Glen at about 6am Monday. Note: Beattie points out that there was never a report of the sound of a gun at 6am.

Please read this chat, dated October 11, 1996,  with the possibility in mind that a team of doctors put Bryant under hypnosis and fed him some “new memories.” Recall from “the fodder note” that being drugged and hypnotized was nothing new for Martin.

MB (Martin Bryant): I did do some drawings. Are they large enough do you think?

JWA (John W Avery): Well let’s have a look. Right, so what’s this one?

MB: There’s the … at Dunalley

JWA: Right.

MB: And that’s where I did my target shooting usually between Murdunna and Eaglehawk Neck

JWA: Right, right.

MB: I found that important. Well, this is more important isn’t it, where the Martins, where the Seascape Guest House is

JWA: Right, so this is the Seascape Guest House here

MB: Yep, that’s the top, that’s where Pears was, there

JWA: Right

MB: The Police allege that I was shooting out at them, I can’t recall

JWA: Doing that

MB: No, no not at all

JWA: Right, okay, the Fox and Hounds

MB: The Fox and Hounds, that’s the car that was parked near the main house, the Seascape Guest House and there’s the two smaller houses on the property

JWA: Right, so this is just an exploded version of this, is it?

MB: Yep, and that’s the Martins. That’s where I shot them, on the bed.

JWA: Right, right, okay, well that’s fine, and this is the…

MB: Are they big enough?

JWA: Yep, yep, no they’re fine

MB: And another thing, I don’t know how…the recording was last time but I said something about a bus, I remember shooting people around the bus but I don’t recall going on the bus

JWA: You don’t recall going on the bus? Alright so, okay…

MB: And I recall um shooting people in the cafeteria but I don’t recall injuring anyone at all

JWA: Right, alright.

MB: I recall them dying

JWA: Alright, okay, well that’s fine. Well, I’ll take those with me. Just to bring you up to date mate, I’m going to Melbourne to have a talk with Paul Mullen, remember Professor Mullen

MB: Oh yeah, you haven’t been yet?

JWA: No

MB: I thought you were going on Wednesday

JWA: No, I’m going next Wednesday

MB: Oh yeah, next Wednesday

JWA: To see him and Ian Joblin

MB: Yeah, he’s a lovely person

JWA: You got on alright with him?

MB: Yeah

JWA: I think they may want to see you again, so I’ll have a talk to the Trustees about that

MB: Oh good

JWA: You’re happy to see them again?

MB: Oh yes

JWA: And basically tell them what you’ve told me

MB: Yep

JWA: Alright, well we’ll see if we can sort that out. You asked me about Julian

MB: Knight, yes

JWA: I understand he pleaded guilty to those charges, right

MB: Hm

JWA: What else to bring you up to date. I’m going to see the Director of Public Prosecutions next Thursday to discuss matters with him, so I’ll come and see you next Thursday after I’ve done … and after I’ve been to the Crown, alright!

MB: Yeah, oh good.

JWA: So that will just bring things up to date

MB: That’s Damien Bugg isn’t it?

JWA: Yes, the Director of Public Prosecutions is Damien Bugg

MB: Yeah, yeah. I saw Damien Bugg on the day I went to Court.

JWA: Right, yeah, so that’s really about where we’re at at the moment

MB: Right

JWA: I did try and contact your Mum but I just got an answering machine

MB: Yeah, she’s got an answering machine

JWA: So, I’ve left a message for her to give me a hoy sometime, if she wants to, or whether she will

MB: She put an answering machine on since the incident

JWA: Right

MB: So … the reporters

JWA: Right, she was getting hassled was she

MB: (indecipherable)

JWA: Not any more

MB: So you talked to them

JWA: I spoke to them and there hasn’t been a problem since

MB: Are they down there now?

JWA: No

MB: I think they were there last week for a few days

JWA: They were I think the second time I saw you, or the first time, but no, they’re not anymore, so there’s no…

MB: Oh, I suppose they’ll show in Court, show the guns and things like that

JWA: Well, I mean obviously that’s part of the evidence you know, they they will have to go through. What … what’s your current feeling as to how you want to plead? Have you given any further thought to that in recent times?

MB: I don’t really know. Can I still plead not guilty?

JWA: Well, you can, but I mean given what you’ve told me, the reality is …

MB: On some charges I can plead guilty to and some not, am I allowed to do that?

JWA: Well you can plead to some and not guilty to others. What sort of ones do you think that you might want to plead not guilty to?

MB: To the ones, to the injured

JWA: The injured people

MB: ‘Cos they’re the ones …(indecipherable)

JWA: Right, right.

MB: I don’t recall. All I can recall is people sitting down in the cafeteria

JWA: Just keep your voice up mate

MB: I don’t recall anyone running out

JWA: Right

MB: Just the people that I’ve shot, sitting down

JWA: Right

MB: And they all just died

JWA: Right, right

MB: I don’t recall anyone …

JWA: So what you’re saying, you accept that you killed people but you don’t think you injured, or you don’t remember injuring people?

MB: I don’t remember injuring

JWA: Other than the ones that you killed

MB: That’s right.

JWA: Yeah. Alright, well we don’t have to worry about that at the moment.

MB: Yep

JWA: As I say, it’s just a matter of just taking it step by step

MB: Hm

JWA: The other thing I just wanted to ask you, I think I did talk to you last time about this. How long do you think looking back in your mind now, you’d been planning this?

MB: Oh, about 1-2 years

JWA: 1-2 years. Had you ever sort of had a dummy run before or almost got to doing it before?

MB: No never

JWA: No

MB: Its only been past … or since after Christmas this year

JWA: Right, that you seriously thought about it or seriously started thinking about it?

MB: Yeah

JWA: What did you think you were going to get out of it. I mean you must have known you were going to get caught.

MB: Oh, just going out and killing people

JWA: Yeah, but I mean when you thought you wanted to do that did you also think well I know I’ll get caught or did you think you’d get killed or what did you think?

MB: I thought I’d either get caught or get killed and I thought killing the Martins

JWA: Just a bit louder

MB: I thought that if I killed the Martins I would go to jail for life, right.

JWA: Yeah

MB: And I thought, well if I kill a lot of people it really won’t make much of a difference

JWA: In other words if you kill 10, its not much difference as far as the time in jail to killing one person

MB: That’s right

JWA: Hm.    What was the motivating thing though to kill anyone. Just looking back, I mean was it for pleasure?

MB: I just wanted to kill the Martins because I didn’t like them … When I was a child they gave me a bad time

JWA: Yeah.   So it was the Martins that you really wanted to get!

MB: Yes

JWA: The others….

MB: I hated them

JWA: Right, you hated them. Was there anyone else you hated?

MB: No, no-one. No-one’s been bad to me, just … mainly Mrs Martin that I wanted to kill but I thought I’d kill Mr. Martin while I was there

JWA: But you were conscious were you, when you were thinking of that and planning to do that, that you’d get caught? Or did you ever seriously think you’d get away with it?

MB: I thought they’d shoot me or I’d get caught and go to jail, either one

JWA: Yeah, so…

MB: At the time it wasn’t in my mind

JWA: Right, What are you going to do for the rest of your life here?

MB: I don’t really know. Just live day by day. I don’t know.

JWA: How are you occupying yourself at the moment?

MB: Drawings, sleeping

JWA: Right

MB: That’s about it

JWA: Right, now you’ve done some drawings for me, did you enjoy doing that?

MB: Yeah, they’re good, yeah

JWA: So do you want me to get you some more, have you got plenty of …

MB: I’ve got plenty of paper

JWA: Well, alright, why don’t you keep doing some. Even if it’s only just therapy for you and you know do some bigger scale ones if you want to

MB: Right, of this?

JWA: Yeah, or anything

MB: Are they big enough?

JWA: Yeah, that’s fine but if you want to do bigger ones, why don’t you just do some of what you … of anything

MB: Yeah, do you ever do any scuba diving?

JWA: I don’t. I’ve got a few friends who do. I’ve got a watch, its a diver’s watch

MB: That’s an underwater one, I can tell

JWA: Yeah, but no I don’t. That’s obviously something that’s been pretty important to you

MB: Yeah, I used to do a lot of scuba diving

JWA: Remember when we spoke last time I asked you what you felt like when you were killing those people. Remember you said that it was…

MB: Exciting

JWA: Exciting, and …

MB: Thrilling

JWA: And you likened it to driving your boat fast, and

MB: Scuba diving

JWA: Was that how it was?

MB: Yes, it was, truly exciting, really exciting

JWA: Yeah

MB: The most exciting thing I’ve ever done in my life which was something different

JWA: Yeah

MB: Just shooting the people.

JWA: And did it really just get out of hand. I mean, you obviously didn’t plan to shoot 30 people. When you decided you were going to shoot the Martins, how many people did you think after that or was there no thought process, just …

MB: Um, no thought … I don’t think it was a thought, no thought process. I just thought I’d go out and kill a lot of people

JWA: Did you physically know by the time you were back at Seascape how many people had been killed?

MB: Quite a few, but

JWA: Yeah

MB: I thought I’d killed a dozen or so

JWA: So you thought you’d killed a dozen or so, yeah

MB: I didn’t think I’d killed 20

JWA: You didn’t

MB: No

JWA: No, no. Do you want to tell me anything at the moment. I mean today’s just an easy day. I didn’t want to have to burden you with

MB: No …you’ll get on well with Professor Mullen

JWA: Right. How did you find the other fellow, Lucas?

MB: The one from Adelaide?

JWA: Yes

MB: Are you going over there?

JWA: No, I’m not going to see him, no

MB: He’s not worth seeing, he’s got a ….(indecipherable)

JWA: Has he

MB: I didn’t think he was much at all. I didn’t like him.

JWA: Right.

MB: He was a criminologist, I think

JWA: Was he

MB: I think that’s what you call him. I don’t think he was a Psychiatrist, just a …

JWA: No

MB: But Mr Joblin, he’s great, so’s Professor Mullen

JWA: Right

MB: Great people to talk to

JWA: And you’d be happy to see them again

MB: Oh yes, anytime. Hm. But I don’t think much of Dr. Sale either

JWA: Right

MB: Have you met Dr Sale?

JWA: Yes I know him, little fellow isn’t he

MB: Yeah, he works for the Prosecution. I don’t think he’s got his own private…

JWA: Oh, he’s in private practice but he does a lot of work for the Crown, so … but anyway Ian Joblin and Paul Mullen, you’re happy about them

MB: Yep, oh yeah. He came to see me twice actually, Dr. Sale

JWA: Right

MB: He mentioned to me that I pointed to myself in that video interview

JWA: Right

MB: He has this…(indecipherable) and I said what, did I do that, did I point to myself(indecipherable) that was a ball’s up wasn’t it – what I had done then

JWA: Yeah, can’t be helped now, that’s water under the bridge

MB: Yeah, right, yeah

JWA: Well what we’ll work along is this. We’ll work along the basis that you’re probably going to have to plead guilty to the people you’ve killed, right. We’ll look at the other aspect later.

MB: What, to all them

JWA: Well, I mean realistically I think, but

MB: Hm

JWA: So we haven’t got to make that decision today

MB: Hm

JWA: Because I think you know as well as I do that I think you’re going to be convicted of that, don’t you

MB: (laughter) – yeah that’s right

JWA: And there’s no sort of sense us thinking we can pull rabbits out of the hat

MB: Will you actually, um, then make a statement in writing to that, or what happens?

JWA: Well, I mean it depends on which way we end up going right. If you were to plead guilty right, what happens there is the Crown still have to put a lot of evidence before the Court to tell the Court what happened. I mean we all know what happened, the world knows, but the Court has to be formally told that and what we would have to do then, you and I, is work out what I’d say on your behalf

MB: Yep

JWA: Now you could tell the world through me whatever you want to about it or you could say like some people in this situation “I’m not going to say anything”

MB: What happens there?

JWA: Well I mean, the penalty is going to be very obvious

MB: It’ll take longer

JWA: Whatever we say right or don’t say but all I’m saying you might want the world to know what motivated you to do this or you may not. You may say well I want everyone to know. That’s something you’ve got to think on – whether you want me to tell all the world what you’ve told me. You may say no John that’s between you and me and you might say…

MB: But they’ll have to get witnesses to any injured … some of the injured victims

JWA: Yeah, I mean certainly if it gets to that they will have to call some witnesses. In fact, I’m going to talk to the Crown on Thursday as to that right

MB: And people on the bus ’cos I didn’t go on the bus. I don’t recall going on the bus and the bloke that lived that was shot through the neck -yeah I don’t believe any of that, that that actually occurred

JWA: But how would it, I mean if it didn’t occur clearly they must have got injured by someone mustn’t they

MB: They must have

JWA: And there wasn’t anyone but Martin Bryant walking around was there

MB: No

JWA: So, you know, you’re the fellow in the long coat

MB: I’m not sorry now that I didn’t kill people

JWA: I know you’re not sorry, I’m not going to ask you if you’re sorry ‘cos I know you’re not are you?

MB: No. I’m in here and they’re looking after me well and, … they’re ear-wigging now

JWA: That can’t be helped

MB: That’s right

JWA: Look the last thing I’m ever going to say to you is are you sorry ‘cos I know you’re not, are you?

MB: No

JWA: You’re not going to con me and say you’re sorry for what you did, are you

MB: No, I’m not

JWA: In fact, I suspect you’re pleased

MB: Um, I’m excited, yeah

JWA: Does it still give you some excitement as to what you did?

MB: Yeah, I don’t know. I might come out in Court and tell everyone what happened. I don’t know. I might be the best thing to do, mightn’t it?

JWA: We’ll worry about that later right. That’s something you and I have to work through, right. As to whether you say it or I say it on your behalf

MB: Exactly, it might upset the people more if I say it

JWA: Well it might. I mean it might be more diplomatic for me to tell the world what you want to say rather than see you smiling and grinning and you know …

MB: Yeah, I might let them know (laughter)

JWA: You might have someone jump over that glass cage to get you

MB: (laughter) I don’t think so, no. One bloke came up … I suppose you heard about one bloke stood up and said I’m a coward

JWA: That was Mr. Pears’ brother wasn’t it?

MB: Who

JWA: Pears’ brother

MB: Was he one of the …

JWA: He was the one who sang out at you

MB: Mr Pear’s brother – oh it was his brother was it?

JWA: Yes. You know Pears was the last guy you shot.

 MB: Yes, was it him?

JWA: Yes, it was his brother

MB: Oh, I thought it might have been Mr. ? He was the first in the Broad Arrow and he gave a …(indecipherable)

 JWA: About what time, just changing the subject, about what time would it have been when Mr Pears was shot. Would it have been after midnight. He was the last one you shot, wasn’t it?

MB: It would have been about 6 o’clock that morning.

JWA: Just before you set fire to it right

MB: Yes

JWA: Right, so he was up all night with you

MB: He was up all night

JWA: What did you talk about.  Did you talk to him much?

MB: Just … I don’t think he mentioned that he had any brothers or sisters, I don’t think

JWA: Did you tell him you were going to shoot him?

MB: No I didn’t say anything. I don’t even know where I shot him now

JWA: Right

MB: ‘Cos there was a lot of ammunition

JWA: Alright, anything else you want to tell me today?

MB: No, I can’t think of anything else.  What’s the weather like outside?

JWA: Pissing with rain

MB: Oh gosh! Have you still got your Mercedes?

JWA: Yes

MB: Yeah, its a white one isn’t it?

JWA: How did you know I had that?

MB: Oh, you used to drive around – I used to see you driving around in it

JWA: A little white sports one

MB: Yeah, and your wife had the station … van didn’t she?

JWA: Oh yes, that’s years ago

MB: I think it’s a Holden Station Wagon

JWA: Yeah, yeah. She remembers you up at Peter and Michael’s shop

MB: Yeah

JWA: The Greeks on the corner, there

MB: Peter always used to have children. They used to become … his wife always used to have children, always look down and say\

JWA: All girls

MB: All girls

JWA: That’s right yes. Yeah, they’ve just come back from a holiday. They went to Queensland.

MB: Oh, right.

JWA: I’ll give him your regards

MB: Oh good. Okay then

JWA: Okay, well let’s leave it at that. You keep on with the drawings. Anything you want to do, right!

MB: Okay

JWA: Because I’m sure that well even if its only for therapy, they’re useful. I’ll find it useful

MB: I know

JWA: And I’ll be back here next Thursday afternoon 

MB: Good

JWA: And I’ll see Professor Mullen and Ian Joblin and I’ll have a talk to you then, about them, and also about witnesses and this sort of thing

MB: Allright

JWA:  Okay, keep your chin up mate I’ll see you then alright.

[All emphasis added]

Photo credits:
Martin Bryant -- cdn.newsapi.com.au
John Avery -- abc.net.au 

 

 

 

 

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17 COMMENTS

  1. Please pardon the infelicity in the title, which could imply that Avery did the shooting. And I apologize to the Martins for using only Sally’s first name. Here is the point. During “Jamie’s” talk with negotiator Terry McCarthy, Bryant made it seem that he was in charge of three hostages: Mr and Mrs David Martin, and another.

    Because Jamie specifically said he had Sally and David Martin “on a bed” (tied up, presumably), the Powers That Be must have figured that Bryant should acknowledge to to Avery that he killed them on a bed.

    “MB: Yep, and that’s the Martins. That’s where I shot them, on the bed.
    JWA: Right, right, okay, well that’s fine.”

    It is preposterous to think that Bryant could keep hostages under control for so many hours. Anyway, the official story told to the Court is that Bryant killed both Mr and Mrs Martin around 11am on Sunday morn. His telling the negotiator that evening that he was cooking food for the hostages is nonsense. The negotiator even said it sounded like “Jamie” was reading from a script.

    • Maybe I am wrong, maybe we did NOT print the police interview at Gumshoe. Here is one line, typical of the answers Martin gave on July 4, 1996. When police (Warren and Paine) showed him a picture of the mayhem at Broad Arrow, he replied:

      BRYANT: And you reckon I’ve got something to do with this?

      By October 11th 1996 he had come a long way, telling Avery “I did it.” Note: He stuck with his first story right up to September 30 when he pleaded innocent (“to everyone’s surprise”).

  2. I’ve always felt there were two ‘Jamies’ on the phone to McCarthy….There were differing stories about having ridden in helicopters….One said he had never been in a heli….The other said he’d been in a heli with his girlfriend…..Did anyone else pick up on this?

    • Dear AJ, This is sheer guesswork, but maybe Jamie mostly read from a script that said “I was in a helicopter with my girlfriend.” Then, at another point, the negotiator asked a question for which there was no prepared script, so Martin came up with a genuine Martin answer: “No, never been in a helicopter.”

      You have just made me think of an oddity about police negotiators. Here we see that it has been an official role for at least 20 years — Officer Terry McCarthy was told to keep the terrorist (Bryant) calm, and even promised him a way out “Yes, we’re trying to figure out a safe way for the helicopter to land near Seascape.”

      But in the 17-hour Sydney siege of December 2014, the SIX police negotiators never came in contact with Monis, never offered him even a tiny temptation if he would release some Lindt Café hostages. When Monis himself initiated the plan to let one hostage go in exchange for a gesture from government, they didn’t even reply to him.

      I see total insincerity by government in regard to “negotiating” with Monis. If the whole thing was for show, why negotiate? On the other hand, if it was a genuine hostage situation, why not try every method of communicating with him?

      We always read, don’t we, that the authorities have to do their best to save the lives of hostages? So far the Inquest has shown that NOTHING WAS DONE. Nada, zip, nothing.

      Please explain.

      • Mary, I’ve been in the hospital for a week having surgery and just got back.

        I note your reference to the Inquest – so, did anyone ever find out who was calling the shots from Canberra? Did the Police ever release the audio tape of the gunshots from the Cafe’? Did the Police ever release the autopsy photos and report from the deaths in the Cafe’? I’m particularly interested in this alleged single shot/bullet to the back of the head of Tori. The only known shot of Monis was a warning shot over the heads of the escaping patrons, so what killed Tori? Are the counsel representing the families calling for the audio tapes and autopsy photos?

        This Inquest seems to have a bunch of smoke and mirrors, let’s get to the real nitty gritty instead of hearing from expert negotiators from overseas.

        In regards to Port Arthur, you can see from the succession of interviews how they had been feeding information to the intellectually disabled Bryant. – And Sally Martin did not die from being shot on the bed, she was already dead from blunt trauma to her skull.

        • Dear Terry, I’ll attend the Inquest, dv, on Aug 15, when the witness is Scipione. if they do not ask him point blank “Who was the boss that day, who made decisions?” then we will know it is defo smoke and mirrors. Talk about tragic if that is so.

          I guess you could ask Mr O’Connell representing the Dawsons, or Ms Bashir representing the Johnsons, if they have called for the audiotape and autopsy photos.

          Your questions are wonderful. I see on the Inquest website that the media is given access to all the documents. I’d like Dee to register as media. I consider my attendance as that of citizen.

          P.S. I don’t quite agree that “the only known shot of Monis was a warning shot…” Isn’t it the case that that shot is “known” in the same way that the ballistics report of the shooting of Tori is known? What did you mean by “known”? What avenues of verification are open to us? Gosh, we are so dependent on police honesty.

        • From Part 5 of your series –

          “Nonetheless, a moment did arrive when the decision was made to storm the Café. It seems to have occurred after the last batch of hostages escaped around 2am (about 6 of them; there were 5 earlier ones; this left 7 more in situ, plus Monis). A shot was fired by the terrorist as they left.

          Dennis noted that the shot demonstrated two things: One, that Monis had a functioning firearm, and Two that he had shot way above their heads into the glass panel, apparently not trying to kill anyone.”

        • “I guess you could ask Mr O’Connell representing the Dawsons, or Ms Bashir representing the Johnsons, if they have called for the audiotape and autopsy photos.”

          My recollection of the rules of evidence is THANKFULLY receding into the abyss of time, however, the alleged ‘expert’ has given a report based upon an audio tape – the actual audio tape is the ‘best evidence’ of what is on that tape. The same applies to the forensic evidence of the wound to Tori – a shotgun wound is significantly different to a .223 wound – a picture speaks a thousand words.

          Also, if Jeromy Gormly is counsel assisting the inquiry, he should be assisting the inquiry. He should be up front in asking these questions.

  3. On first reading this interview, one may well say “see he did do it, he just confessed”. But read the interview again and THINK about what is being said. Martin admits he committed certain parts of the crime AND only certain parts. He then says that he doesn’t remember doing it. This proves beyond doubt that psychos have been force feeding him drugs while filling his mind with garbage, but they have only been partially successful and his brain is fighting back.

    These psychos didn’t do their job very well as they have only impressed on Martin’s mind the killings but not the injured victims. That is why he is so concerned for the injured victims and wont admit to him being responsible.

    In regards the shooting of Glen Pears, he doesn’t admit to that crime, but answers to the question of what time Pears was shot.

    This brings me to a very important bit of evidence that I haven’t been thinking about. The long coat that most police statements mention that the killer wore at the Broad Arrow Café. After the killer left the café the coat is not mentioned anywhere. Did he take it off and leave it in the Volvo. If so, why is there no mention of it by police or prosecution. Was it worn at the killings at the toll booth or at the killing scene near the shop?

    Is this why Constable Isles has not given a statement? Maybe the killer had taken the coat off by the time Isles saw him and the prosecution cannot afford to have the coat forensically examined if it had been left in the Volvo. That coat would have attached to it, hair from the wig, hair from the wearer’s head and maybe dandruff, as well as possible other DNA.

    The other possibility is that the killer wore the coat to Seascape. If this is the case that is another reason that SOG officer had to set fire to the building. We now have fingerprints on weapons, the bodies of those murdered at Seascape, the possibility of the killer’s coat, fingerprints within the building and the capability of extracting the times of death of those murdered, that had to be destroyed by fire.

      • A bloke in Perth has a blog (cant think of the name) In the blog he says that he run into the partner of the first person killed, the girl from WA.

        According to the partner, the girl lent forward (presumably over a table) and said there TWO blokes staring at me. When the partner lent over to have a look she died and he got crazed.

        It stands to reason that there would have been a back up man in case things went wrong and the first shooter got taken down. Given there were ASIO agents in the room, this would have been a distinct possibility. The back up would have then taken over.

        I believe it was Andrew McGregor who named the shooter at the cafa. As this shooter is only a young bloke, its possible that it was his first time on the trigger and the second shooter was the coach or mentor. If this was the case the back up, in all likelihood would have been an older and more experienced bloke, hence the girls comment about two blokes staring at her.

        I also believe it was Andrew McGregor who said two blokes wearing white gum boots like are worn in a meat works, were seen inside the cafa, surveying the scene when the shooting was over.

        • Having studied this case for years & running two secret groups about Port Arthur I don’t agree with Andrew MacGregor. The main shooter in the café was a highly experienced person & the 2nd not a backup but a replacement….This was a younger, not so well trained shooter who was to carry out the rest of the shootings. The main shooter made his getaway in one of the two Volvos after the BA Cafe shootings while the 2nd shooter carried on with the shooting in the carpark & made his way to Seascape, leaving the 2nd Volvo at the tollgates (containing Bryant’s passport). I have my own ideas about who the main shooter was. The two shooters, dressed similarly but not exactly, arrived in Volvos through the toll gates & both paid an entry fee as both were remembered by the cashiers.

          Re your last paragraph about the two guys….One was seen rifling through the pockets of one of the dead ASIO agents after they had run inside after the shootings.

  4. This interview is the second one that I have had a chance to read. John Avery was paid to supposedly act as a defence counsel for Bryant. However nowhere in either of these interviews , does he even mention defence or anything other than Bryant’s guilt. He even feeds Bryant’s guilt complex that has been instilled by the psychos.

    • Mal, I have never seen a prosecutor’s handbook but I assume it tells them they are not allowed to visit the accused in prison. Psychiatrist Ian Sale worked for the prosecution yet he visits Martin and shows him that the evidence is damming:

      MB: Yep, oh yeah. He came to see me twice actually, Dr. Sale

      JWA: Right

      MB: He mentioned to me that I pointed to myself in that video interview

      JWA: Right

      MB: He has this…(indecipherable) and I said what, did I do that, did I point to myself…(indecipherable) that was a ball’s up wasn’t it – what I had done then

      JWA: Yeah, can’t be helped now, that’s water under the bridge.

      (Maxwell: No it ain’t. Watch this space!!)

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