by Mary W Maxwell, LLB
Mary Maxwell: Greetings, Andrew [by phone on September 13, 2018]. Thanks for trusting GumshoeNews with your information
Andrew Mcintyre: It’s nice to be listened to.
Mary: We published an interview with your sister Rachel Vaughan, and then I listened to her testimony at the International Tribunal for Natural Justice. I haven’t found even the slightest point on which to doubt her.
Andrew: Maybe there will be some small points that we get wrong, but we know we lived with a terrible man, my father, whom I call “Max.”
THE MCINTYRES
Mary: As your family is a bit complicated, let me go over this. Max had three wives: your mother Margaret who is also the mother of Ruth and the late Clare, and then a wife named Suzanne who is Mum to Rachel and her two siblings who don’t wish to speak, and then a third wife who is a lecturer at Deakin University. Is that right?
Andrew: Yes, my mother died in 1967 when I was 13. My father accused me of murdering her while she was in hospital. Although it’s an absurd accusation it is hard to bear.
Mary: So young, only 34. Did the coroner of South Australia hold an inquest?
Andrew: I don’t think so. She died in hospital and that usually means no inquest is needed. Probably Max was the murderer. By the way, in addition to his story that I did it, he has said that two male nurses in the hospital murdered her.
MK-ULTRA
Mary: By law, it is never too late to hold an inquest. Now let me say that I am not trying to solve the McIntyre case. I look for connections around Australia regarding the MK-Ultra program. I got involved in that research in 2005 in America, my “hometown,” but not till 2016 did I learn of the Australian connection.
Andrew: I don’t know much about it but when we were children Max used to control us by beating us and giving us minimal food. He groomed us, drugged us, and sexually molested us. He would intimidate me by telling me that I was retarded and that I would never amount to anything.
Mary: The starvation bit is textbook MK-Ultra but maybe Max was a born psychopath.
Andrew: Possibly, but it is more likely he was trained into it. By losing all human empathy and moral conscience he became valuable to those he worked for.
Mary: You mean the pedophile rings.
Andrew: Yes. He fulfilled quite a heavy schedule of body-disposal for the murders they committed.
TELECOM WIRE-TAPPER
Mary: How did he claim to make a living openly?
Andrew: he was employed by Telecom. He was a wire tapper and sometimes he said he was a police informant. In those day before electronic surveillance, they had people tapping into telephone conversations.
Mary: Do you have any idea who were his targets?
Andrew: I know that he wire-tapped SP bookies.
Mary: What’s an SP bookie?
Andrew: They were bookies who take bets on horses and so forth. “SP” stands for “starting price” meaning the value of the chance of a particular horse winning. It’s interesting to know that not only was my father wiretapping SP bookies, other people were SP bookies including Robert Symonds (Mother Goose), my maternal grandfather Hurtle Horan, and Jim Beaumont the father of the Beaumont children.
Much later my Horan grandfather died at home and no one knew of it, so they did not find him for a long time. His body was putrid. It would not surprise me if Max was the murderer but I have no evidence to go on.
Mary: I understand that last year, 2017, you were prevented from attending the funeral of your father.
Andrew: My siblings and I were not able to go to the ceremony. Because of the malicious statements that he had spread throughout the family about my sisters Ruth and Rachel and myself, I felt that the people at Max’s funeral would have turned on us.
I viewed the funeral from a distance. I bear so much hatred towards my father for the things that he had done in his life. His associates in crime were there, however.
BEAUMONT CHILDREN
Mary: You believe the three Beaumont children are buried at your father’s old property in Stansbury?
Andrew: Yes. They were thrown into a sinkhole and it was later covered over.
Mary: A few months ago, the TV audiences of Australia were shown an excavation going on, to find the children’s bodies at the Castalloy factory. What was that all about?
Andrew: A journalist claimed that Harry Phipps was the murderer and that he buried the children at Castalloy. This is in a book called The Satin Man which I have not read.
Mary: You say the three Beaumont children are buried at your father’s old property in Stansbury?
Andrew: Yes.
Mary: I owe an apology to the readers of Gumshoe for a mistake I made in our Avalanche series. I said that you, Andrew, were the 12-year-old boy who was “covered in vomit” after witnessing the murder of the Beaumont children in 1966.
Andrew: I also was 12 years old at that time — I was born in 1953 — but that child is someone else. I met that boy only once, shortly before that 1966 abduction. He had come down to talk to Tony Munro at Tony’s house when we were preparing for a diving trip. Furthermore I did not witness the Beaumonts being killed. I hope that boy is still alive; he is the best witness.
Mary: OK, we’ll discuss the Beaumont abduction in another phone call, but I am trying to establish some context here. A wonderful woman in Victoria told me that Geelong and/or Ballarat were havens for MK-Ultra, and Townsville, too. She said the real boss is the Tavistock group of psychiatrists in England. I think the cult run by Anne Hamilton-Byrne in Victoria is in some way connected.
Andrew: I have heard of Anne Hamilton-Byrne.
Mary: She is over 96 years old in a nursing home, I believe. One of her adopted children, Sarah Moore, MD, wrote a book called “Unseen, Unheard.” There was a police raid on the property that allowed the kids to escape. Her group, like the SA group, is called “The Family.” That is the name of a good movie about her.
Andrew: I have not heard of that movie. I have cousins who have adopted the name Hamilton. Marty Hamilton-Smith is one of them. He is a recently-retired leader in SA’s Liberal Party.
POLICE INVOLVEMENT, AND THE TORRENS
Mary: If you prove your story I can assure you that will have a beneficial impact on the people of Adelaide. It will teach them that the South Australian Police – SAPOL – has known all long, yet we have been insulted for 52 years by being told of the “mystery” of the Beaumont kids’ disappearance.
Andrew: It is not a mystery.
Mary: In Victoria there is an 83-year-old former police detective named Denis Ryan, who wrote a book, Unholy Trinity, about the way he was not believed or was told to shup up when he reported on pedophile priests. The recent Royal Commission helped him get a payment of compensation.
Andrew: They should pay Mick O’Shea. He was an Adelaide cop and he dobbed other cops in. You can see his 2009 interview with Graham Archer on the subject of police corruption.
Mary: I know his name because he whistle-blew the murder of law lecturer George Duncan.
Andrew: Yes, Mick said the cops all went for a few beers that night, then they threw some guys into the Torrens. Later Mick was reprimanded but only for drinking while on duty.
It’s not publicly known that there were many witnesses to the George Duncan drowning including three pedophiles that are currently serving prison sentences, Bevan Spencer Von Einem, Robert Symonds (aka Mother Goose), and John Argent. The other Vice Squad police that were involved were given large sum payouts, compensation for leaving the police force, they bought hotels with that money.
Mary: I read at Wikipedia that two Vice-squad cops were put on trial for manslaughter but were not convicted — Francis Cawley and Michael Clayton. I believe George Duncan’s death wouldn’t have been investigated at all but for my dear law teacher, Professor Horst Leucke sticking his neck out.
Andrew: Mick O’Shea said that the cops knew, before they started, that the night was going to end badly. They knew George Duncan couldn’t swim and that he had only one lung.
Mary: Wow. I wonder how they had that information.
WHISTLE BLOWERS
Andrew: I don’t know. You can ask Mick — if he is still alive. He had to go into hiding as he had ratted on the Brothers, and you just don’t do that.
Mary: Thank God whistle blowers pop up everywhere. Some people have a drive for truth.
Andrew: My sisters and I have been acting on our truth drive for many years. Being rebuffed by SAPOL is no joke either.
Mary: Ah, you should have come to my Fringe play last March. It was about “false memory syndrome.” My MK-Ultra friends all claim that the FMS attack on them in the 1990s was worse than the suffering they had early in life – and that’s saying something.
Andrew: Being rebuffed by SAPOL is no joke either.
Mary: How do you think your father became a bad man?
Andrew: I don’t know. He had only a Grade 7 education but he was very smart. He was an all-rounder for talent. I have a completely different personality from my father. I am not at all like him. But I did pick up some skills from him and perfected them; this made him jealous of me.
Mary: I am very grateful to you for the information and your endurance. I realize you are suffering from a broken rib today.
Andrew: Yes, I jumped over a fence and caught my leg in it so landed on concrete. But I don’t mind the pain – I’ll be OK.
***** Second Interview, September 25, 2018 ******
A FOLLOW-UP PHONE CALL
Mary: This morning I’d like to ask you abut the Beaumont children and also about your dear sister Clare. I noticed that Rachel said Ruth was taken as a witness by your father to see some of his crimes as they happened. Can you explain why?
Andrew: Ruth told me that she would be taken along to witness things. Max would use his children as witnesses to the dismantling, disposal, burial of bodies. No one else was murdering children at the time, it was our father doing it, along with Anthony (Tony) Munro.
Mary: What about the supposed sightings of the Beaumont children after they went missing?
Andrew: I believe they died on the same day they went missing. As I recently said to a journalist, if any children were found at the Castalloy site, they would be the 3 wards of the state. After the Beaumont children went missing, Max took 3 children from the Goodwood Orphanage who resembled the Beaumont children. He dressed them and cut their hair so that they would look like the Beaumont children. He paraded them around Adelaide so people would report sightings of them.
Mary: You mean he was so powerful that he could snatch children from a public institution and not get questioned?
Andrew: I assume no questions were asked. Max then murdered those orphans.
Mary: Who else besides you can vouch for that?
Andrew: The use of those other children as “substitutes” was witnessed by my sister Ruth. Amazingly she was later taken to a police station and told to make an admission that it was she who pushed them off a cliff. But she refused to say that.
By the way, as I told the Sunrise journalist, there were approximately 600 children that went missing. That was reported in the 2008 Mullighan Inquiry.
SISTER CLARE
Mary: I am so sorry that you lost your sister Clare and so sorry for her that she lost her life. Was she married?
Andrew: She has two daughters.
Mary: Was there a coronial inquest into her death?
Andrew: I don’t know. I was asked to file a written report, which I did. I say she was murdered and as usual I think it was Max who did it. She was found in the back garden with a broken neck. It was called a suicide.
Mary: You told me about your mother’s death, also ruled a suicide.
Andrew: My mother was murdered at the age of 34 in hospital. My mother had admitted herself to hospital early on New Years Eve in 1966. Max had given my sister Ruth a letter to hand to my mother telling her he was kicking us all out and selling the family home. He suggested that we could all live with our grandfather.
This is why my mother admitted herself to hospital as she was so distressed and had become very depressed and anxious after our eldest sister Clare had left home with Max the day of the Beaumont abductions and never returned home.
Mary: Holy God, I never heard that before. How old was Clare?
Andrew: Clare was 15. The dates of birth for the first three kids of Max (real name Allan McIntyre) born 1929 are: Clare, 1951; Andrew, 1953; Ruth born 1957. When my father left, my mother, Margaret, had to continue to work her full-time job to pay the mortgage.
Mary: Did any of your contributions get reported to the recent Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse?
Andrew: Yes and No. It was statements made to the RC by myself and another victim that led to the 2017 prosecution of Tony Munro – because he had been a Scout Leader. Tony Munro was convicted for the second time for child rape and received an 18-year prison sentence, but it was reduced to 5 years. His solicitor Stephen Ely told the court that Tony was “a top bloke, a fine upstanding citizen with fine moral qualities.” But if you are asking me if the RC was willing to hear about police involvement the answer is No. We tried to tell them.
Mary: That confirms my fear that the Royal Commissioner, Justice Peter McClellan, whom I admire for going as far as he did go, would not “go there.” What a tragedy. Unbelievable really.