By James O’Neill*
In June of this year the government introduced legislation into the House aimed at “strengthening” the requirements migrants would be obliged to meet in order to qualify for Australian citizenship. One of the requirements, we are told, is that prospective citizens will have to demonstrate a commitment to “Australian Values”.
Nobody, however, seems able to agree on precisely what these “values” are, although a number of commentators suggested that as a people Australians cherish certain things, ranging from a firm belief in having tomato sauce on the barbecue sausage to notions such as a “fair go” for individuals.
The Prime Minister is fond of using such phrases as ‘a rules based international system’ or ‘a commitment to the rule of law’,’ usually in the context of denouncing a person or country that, in the Prime Minister’s eyes at least, fails to meet the standards he expects.
So, in the spirit of helping the government decide if a ‘fair go’ and a ‘commitment to the rule of law’ are indeed suitable criteria, I thought it would be helpful to look at some selected features of Australian history to see how those concepts might be applied.
Can we say, for example, that the aboriginal people have had a ‘fair go’? Did the refusal to acknowledge their human status until the 1967 referendum (nearly 200 years after the invasion) impinge on their capacity to have a ‘fair go’.
Despite hand-wringing reports on a regular basis pointing out the sustained levels of disadvantage and the need to ‘close the gap’ some uncomfortable truths remain. On virtually every significant social indicator, from infant mortality, to educational standards including even basic literacy, to having basic utilities like electricity and clean running water to their sub-standard dwellings, to employment and much else, Aboriginal people continue to languish at Third world levels. Is this a ‘fair go?’
The current convulsions over whether people of the same gender should be allowed to express their commitment to each other in a marriage ceremony reveals more than residual bigotry or homophobia. The polls consistently show that 70% or thereabouts support amending the law to allow same sex couples the same rights as heterosexual couples.
The government however, insists on a plebiscite, which, if the polls are correct, will show overwhelming support for change. Yet the plebiscite will not be binding on members of Parliament who will vote in accordance with their own beliefs. So why spend $200 million on an absolutely pointless exercise when the end result will be a voting exercise that could be achieved tomorrow and save the taxpayers $200 million? The answer must be because we have a government so captive to its reactionary rump that it ignores the democratic wishes of the overwhelming majority of the people. Can someone please explain how this is reflecting an Australian value?
Let’s look at Turnbull’s favourite phrase of a rules based international order. There is actually such a creature. It is found in the UN Charter, international Conventions, customary international law, and the rulings of the World Court among other places. It is here however, that one struggles to equate the supposed value that Turnbull cherishes, with the government’s actual practice.
In my view, Australian foreign policy would benefit from a real commitment to international law as reflected in actual practice. If we truly did hold this as an Australian value, then we might have avoided the following, very small sample.
- Invading and occupying Iraq on the basis of multiple lies leading to the destruction of a society, the displacement of millions and the deaths of more than a million Iraqis.
- Taking part in a ‘coalition’ in Syria that is in flagrant breach of international law; helps rather than hinders the terrorist organisations operating there; lying about the reasons for joining this blatant attempt at regime change; and refusing to release the legal opinion on which the decision was allegedly based.
- Breaching a whole host of international Conventions, including the Refugee Convention, the Convention on the Rights of the Child, and the International Convention on Human Rights. The best illustration of this is denying refugees due process of law, locking them up in off-shore detention centres, and making it a crime for journalists, doctors and whistleblowers generally to report on actual conditions in these gulags.
- Maintaining a studied silence when the rights of others are grossly violated, as with the Saudi led attack on Yemen, or the treatment of the Palestinians.
There are many other examples. Try as I might, I cannot reconcile these examples with anything remotely approaching a commitment to a ‘rules based international order’, much less a ‘fair go’ for the victims of this disgraceful conduct. If the government itself cannot abide by the rules it says are essential, how reasonable is it to expect prospective citizens to commit to upholding them? Hypocrisy is the kindest word that comes to mind.
One final thought. The Australian Constitution is almost completely silent on guaranteeing basic human rights. Successive governments have refused to countenance introducing a Bill of Rights or its equivalent to align Australia with every other country that belongs to that group that we are otherwise more than please to associate our name with, liberal democratic societies.
It is little wonder the government is having trouble finding a morally and logically consistent definition of what exactly constitutes ‘Australian values’. After all, that exercise may lead to some uncomfortable introspection. Critical self-examination is definitely not something one associates with ‘Australian values.’
*Barrister at Law and geopolitical analyst. He may be contacted at joneill[at]qldbar.asn.au
James ,
yes it is “fare go” for the connected international .
Socialism for the elite and debt slavery for the greater majority.
I wonder if the Canberra politicians will ever find the courage to admit past atrocities?
When will that famous Australian, Rupert Murdoch, admit his atrocities?
Why have I been censored by gumshoe?
Gumshoe does not censor.
Maybe there was a mozzie on the line. I will tell Her Bossness.
Thanks Mary, I did not know that.
56, I thought the ruling elite, a elite that may well be described as tyrannical in character, and not socialist, whereas most of the ruled may well be characterized as a form communist pseudo democracy, communistic in becoming guided by a elite to become true communism but the elite becomes entrenched within the role of a establishment guiding to become, but never arrives.
Don , what I meant to say was that the elite spread the wealth amongst themselves in many ways . To me that is communism from and only for the top . .
Last night on abc news reported that 40% of income went to paying house loan . Let’s break down the numbers . If a house in Sydney costs 1 million , over twenty five years that loan becomes two and a half million . That’s 100k in repayments per year net .
Although dwellings may have been going up 10% per annum for reasons of insanity . The average wage here has been stagnant for thirty years ( in some cases going down ) . If the average worker earns 40 to 50 k net per year , how do you figure their numbers of distraction . Everything broadcast is spin that is big lies repeated over and over . This place stopped being the fair go a long long time ago . The invaders are not displaced Arabs and others from lands destroyed by wars . They are the CCP and their servants . The party has 90 million members in China .
We are their game and no bullshit can save us . All our domestic leaders , left and right , know this as they are all on the payroll for the agenda that is 21 and now 2030 .
Another well written and thought out article.
I would have thought that the number 1 Australian value would be to stick to the rule of law. The first to break this value are the politicians of Australia who continue to ignore the law of the Constitution. They are also continually involved in war crimes.
So why would new Australians feel that they be required to live by our laws, when the “leaders” of our country definitely do not? Not only do our leaders not follow the law, but many justices, whose job it is to make sure the laws are followed, do not themselves, fulfil their duty.
“So why spend $200 million on an absolutely pointless exercise when the end result will be a voting exercise that could be achieved tomorrow and save the taxpayers $200 million? The answer must be because we have a government so captive to its reactionary rump that it ignores the democratic wishes”
Or couldn’t it just be that the firm that conducts elections has paid Parliament to insist on the plebiscite?
For a country to have ‘values’, that is cultural values, and the word culture is conveniently forgotten when applying the term ‘values’ in this article because it is from culture, that is traditional values in life via folk lore, law of the land and spiritual values, that instil in what was once Western nation states their perceived culture from which societal values are derived.
Few Western countries today can lay claim to still being a Nation because there are now far too many ‘diverse cultures’ living within them, and as such, are encouraged to rely on their own ‘values’ at the exclusion of the host country’s traditional cultural values.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this article as the author relies on perceptions of how things should be and does not consider that why we are today searching for ‘values’ is because of the thinking that he displays in this article that has caused the very problem that now divides us as a once homogenous Nation called Australia.
In his opinion, it is the ‘minorities’ that have been treated ‘unfairly’ while he ignores the now proven outcome that when a minority is given special status within the Western host culture that no longer wishes to uphold its own superior culture, cultural self-destruction is the result – and I suspect the author already knows this simple logic – as I also suspect the author’s own values are based more in Marxist ideals that the 20th Century has already proven a disastrous failure.
This Nation was founded on Christian/Judeo ‘values’ that thinkers like the author of this article have been attacking ever since because of their own non-acceptance for the belief in a Divine Creator with whom they would rather replace with the ‘ascendancy of Man’ over the spiritual guidance that is within all of us through God.
And all of us are spiritual beings. To deny that is to deny life itself. Mark Twain once quipped. ‘There are two great events in everyone’s life, the first is to be born and the second is to find our why we were born.’ And that quote succinctly sums up our individual mission in life.
Those who deny the existence of God would rather trust the misguided concept of ‘Humanism’ and all the evils that kind of thinking brings with it than rely on proven Christian/Judeo cultural values that has guided the West in a very dark world for Millenia.
We are still a largely Western country that is managing to hold onto traditional Christian/Judeo values, and it is from those traditions that we should be asserting our ‘values’ to aspiring Australian citizens.
I dont deny the existence of god, but ive yet to be shown any evidence. If we were born to make wars against the weak, to steal others land for ourselves, to rape pillage and plunder, to lie, cheat steal.. is that our mission in life? because thats what has been going on.. is that the religious values we should aspire to? and we call ourselves civilised…
This country was a nation way before a couple hundred years ago.
http://i.imgur.com/YDUeQLd.jpg
astraylya was founded on christian/judeo massacres of the people that had been here for over 50,000 years
you do not have to be religious to have morality, or a sense of whats right or wrong, or an understanding of a fair go – and no religion can claim to be better or worse than any other when those that speak loudest for their particular version of god show the most hypocrisy in everything they do. The same hypocrisy shown by our politicians as James shows in the article.
Our politicians are unlikely to find the courage to admit past atrocities Dee, and their downright refusal to implement a federal ICAC for eg, shows they have no intention to implement any sort of real values that would not benefit themselves over the people they are supposssed to represent?
Fair Dinkum. Human history is full of what you describe – but that is not what we are meant to be doing to each other. The causes of such chaos, death and destruction are more attributable to the innate inability within Humanity to consider the consequences of their actions despite what their belief system teaches them.
The above paragraph is generally true for Western Civilization but should not be applied to other civilizations, such as Islam that teaches the Muslim to conquer, convert or slaughter the ‘infidel’.
Organized religion is a Man made construct designed to control the masses. There is a reason why the Roman Catholic Church forbade the masses to posses, let alone read – those who were literate that is – the Bible, as the Truth about Catholicism would be then be made public. Hence Martin Luther nailing his Thesis to that Cathedral Door in Germany that started off the Reformation of Christianity.
But what has been lost in all the turmoil and wars that followed Luther’s break from the Church is that REAL Christianity was never meant to be controlled by any Church as The Christ hinted at.
God is within all of us. God does not dwell in Man made Churches, Mosques, Temples or Synagogues, but is part of the natural order of things that we have lost all meaning of through some cataclysmic event way back in time.
Hence our need for the Ten Commandments and the coming of The Christ.
I disagree with you that this continent was ever a Nation prior to Western Civilization claiming it. The land before Australia came about was inhabited by hundreds of self-centred and disparate tribes who had no concept of ownership, let alone what Nationhood meant. A disunited peoples cannot be a Nation.
Australia was once a Nation, but it has been ‘thinkers’ like the author of this article and their tinkering with real history that has virtually destroyed that concept.
Nemesis, ( and i do wonder, why did you pick such a name? whos nemesis are you meant to be? ) the atrocities I talk about are not confined to history, they continue to this day, and will probably continue tomorrow too. and you say that is because the consequences are not considered? impossible. collateral damage, and all it encompasses, is well understood, and considered, it is just not a major concern to the hypocritical liars and murderers responsible for the atrocities.
you still bang on about muslims being the evil ones responsible for such things. slaughter the infidel? i dont know any muslims that go round doing such things, i dont know any christians that take bible text so literally that they kill their neighbours for working on a sunday either. if such things are done in the name of any religion, then those doing such things are not really religious, theyre just evil.
just stop it. stop pretending that one religion has a monopoly on morality over any other, or that one is more evil than any other.
https://sites.google.com/site/muslimholocaustmuslimgenocide/australia-s-secret-genocide-history
Todays demonisation of muslims is because it is mostly muslims countries that have the oil, that others want to steal.. and if you want to blame anyone, todays war of terror, can hardly be blamed on muslims
http://www.globalresearch.ca/search?q=isis&x=0&y=0
I may have been wrong when i said this land was a nation prior to a couple hundred years ago, maybe it would be described better as a land of many nations. now whether you agree with that or not, youre not entitled to rewrite 50000 years of historical facts. as for a concept of ownership of land, as we are on the topic of values here, i think custodians of land is a much better concept of values anyway.
you say, “Our need” ?? i have no need for any commandments nor do i wait around for any arrival of any saviour to fix things – all our problems are caused by people who believe such things, well, at least they say they do. god bless us all, say the lords prayer, now lets go bomb some more people.
I have no need for those sort of values at all.
Fair Dinkum. I have a strong sense of justice, hence my screen name, Nemesis, that I have been using since 2008 when I began writing articles for islammonitor.org which is now listed at the Australian National Library for resource purposes.
Yes, the world will still wage its wars while ever there are so many perceptions of us versus them. But, the lack of consideration I refer to, is when those who have some control over the affairs of the world decide to cause their chaos they cannot predict the outcome of what they plan, because even the best laid plans will come asunder when the ‘action’ begins and as history repeatedly shows unseen and unplanned forces come into play.
Why should I stop ‘banging’ on about Muslims? If you read carefully what I wrote, I stated that Islam teaches its followers the Muslim………
After over 30,000 Islamic terrorist attacks world wide since 9/11 would you not also consider that there is something inherently wrong within the teachings of Islam?
And I would suggest you find other alternative sources for your information other than the internet and Youtube. Try reading books because books provide a bibliography, author’s notes and reference sources so that one can check the validity of what is contained within them – you cannot do that on youtube videos unless the makers of the video put up their references.
We are currently in the middle of the Third Great Jihad and you believe that Muslims are being demonised? You should study up on some real history, instead of what you get from the lying MSM, especially concerning the 1400 years of conquest and violence that Islam has caused to the world.
Maybe you could visit the Australian National Library and learn from some very good articles – all sources referenced for you to check up against.
The original inhabitants of this land were tribal, that is, their terms of reference was the marked land they were on and for which they had custody of – they were the custodians of where they dwelt, but a custodian cannot be equated with an owner. They warred with other tribes, in some cases there are reports of them being cannibals, which was not uncommon throughout the South West Pacific area until the white man came and banned the practice.
They had no concept of ownership as recorded in the Royal Navy ship Sirius’ log. For example: if a native desired something that someone else was wearing or had on them, they would simply take it and walk off. Governor Phillip found upon questioning some natives that they had no concept of stealing or ownership, and anything they felt they wanted they just simply took and the problem of theft by natives became so rampant that signs had to be put up in order to deflect them from taking things.
Too, when the First Fleet entered Port Jackson (Sydney Harbour) there were local tribes fishing all around the foreshore. When those who were fishing spotted the ships sailing in they turned their backs so that they could not see them – the above you will find in that ships log. People who can turn their backs on their supposed ‘invaders’ have no concept of Nationhood.
You have not understood what is meant by Christianity. The Christ did not intend for what he taught to become an organized religion, only that His words be accepted as coming from God.
What we have left of our Western civilization is still held together by the Ten Commandments and the morality that is taught via the Bible. You say you have no need of such things, I say you will need to fight to keep what you already have, if you enjoy your current lifestyle, otherwise you, I and everyone else, who still consider themselves Australian will soon lose it all.
What I have written here is from real history, but maybe that is too big a pill for you to swallow, eh?
“After over 30,000 Islamic terrorist attacks world wide since 9/11 would you not also consider that there is something inherently wrong within the teachings of Islam?”
30,000? if you say so. How many of them resulted in muslim deaths? How many Christian terrorist attacks? Again, youre banging on about the evil of one religion over another. 9/11 wasnt muslims, but that was the catalyst for the western created war of terror, all based on lies. <– REAL HISTORY
many an article on the internet also contain a biblography.
"They warred with other tribes, in some cases there are reports of them being cannibals, which was not uncommon throughout the South West Pacific area until the white man came and banned the practice."
they banned the practice? they massacred them. much more civilised.
"What I have written here is from real history, but maybe that is too big a pill for you to swallow, eh?"
Real History? or just your preferred version, a fanciful fiction, like the bible, written over centuries after the event.. So long as you and others like you believe your version of God is better than any other, and can only acknowledge wrong by others while ignoring own sins.. well if thats western civilisation, you can have it.
Fair Dinkum. Care to show me where I am ‘banging’ on about the evil of one religion over another?
You attempt to conflate recent history by omitting 1400 years of Islamic Jihad – the reality of which you ignore. What occurred on 9/11 was an inside job designed to usher in more restrictions to American individual liberty under the Patriot Act and make some in the ‘know’ very wealthy. Maybe you could provide some terrorist attacks committed under the religion of Christianity or Buddhism since 9/11?
Just one would do.
Bibliography is one thing – being able to research what is presented is another – and I bet you don’t check your sources?
Too, and apart from the Myall Creek massacre could you provide some examples of those other massacres? What occurred two hundred years ago also included incidents of blacks massacring the whites – but I guess in your endeavour to denigrate your own civilization you would choose to ignore that.
What I present here I have taken the time and the effort to learn via research and lots of it. I know my sources are correct. How about you?
There is only one God but many versions – yes I would accept that, but what you choose to omit is that we have recorded evidence from Roman, Jewish and early Christian scribes that The Christ did visit us and that what is in the New Testament is mostly accurate which is more than can be said for other belief systems that reflect more on humanism and nature, than in any Divine guidance.
Over to you if you wish to bat on.
“Maybe you could provide some terrorist attacks committed under the religion of Christianity or Buddhism since 9/11?”
the internet is full of such accounts, learn to use the google, youll even find some with bibliographies. the christian war of terror since 9/11 that has killed millions.. illegal immoral warmongering in afghanistan, iraq, libya, syria etc etc etc but surely you dont need links.
the buddhists – https://duckduckgo.com/?q=buddhist+killings+in+burma&ia=web
jews?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47416.htm
and much more before 9/11 too, and on and on it goes
“Too, and apart from the Myall Creek massacre could you provide some examples of those other massacres? What occurred two hundred years ago also included incidents of blacks massacring the whites – but I guess in your endeavour to denigrate your own civilization you would choose to ignore that.”
denigrate my own civilisation? if being justifiably critical of atrocities is denigration of my own civilisation, then yes.. but that is hardly so. im not saying there wasnt attacks on whites, but thats what happens when you invade others lands and rape pillage and plunder.
“could you provide some examples of those other massacres? ”
what? you really think it is all made up? I thought you knew how to research?
https://c21ch.newcastle.edu.au/colonialmassacres/
“Bibliography is one thing – being able to research what is presented is another – and I bet you don’t check your sources?”
you bet do you/ how much? lol – youre really funny mr islammonitor man. you just know youre right. if youre going to usethe bible as some sort of historically factual account of anything, then the only nemesis you are is to yourself. your smarmy condescension is not worth any more effort. youre a waste of space and oxygen, and wouldnt recognise truth if it jumped up and bit you.
Fair Dinkum. If ‘google’ and the internet are such wonderful tools for ‘learning’ then why are you bothering corresponding to me all?
Aren’t you happy having your own views on this world enforced every time you go on the internet – I can do exactly the same kind of thing that would enforce my own views, but I choose real sources I can reference as to validity before I make informed opinions based on what I have learned, not what some propaganda on the internet attempts to enforce onto me.
I have offered you insights to further your own knowledge but you reject them out of hand because what is offered does not suit your own viewpoint – that displays a closed mind.
You only offer propaganda as rebuttal to what I write, a good knowledge of real history would provide you with all the rebuttals that you would need – but you choose internet propaganda as your sources – very unreliable.
Do you truly believe that what has occurred to this planet via the Deep State since 9/11 is due to those you believe are ‘Christians’ ?
Do you truly believe that?
Actually, all the available evidence points to the American Deep State as being Satanists and Pedophiles not Christians.
So, after informing you of the recorded FACT that Port Jackson Aborigines actually turned their backs on the First Fleet as it sailed into the harbour, you believe this land was invaded and those who inhabited it were raped and pillaged?
Even if that were true, do you realize that those who are called Australian Aborigines today are now thought to have replaced an earlier group of people? If true, I wonder how they did that?
You choose to accept the lies of the Stolen Generations and the Genocide of the Aboriginal People over historical fact – that tells me you are denigrating your own culture and people in order to believe your own indoctrination.
I know you are not serious in checking your sources, otherwise you would already have arrived at a completely different viewpoint than the one you present.
Now, you call me a wasted space – yet it was you who chose to correspond with me because you did not agree with what I wrote. That tells me also of your low tolerance for other’s points of view. I guess that is why you believe I am a ‘waste of space and oxygen’ how typical Marxist of you in your indoctrinated assessment.
Do you truly believe that what has occurred to this planet via the Deep State since 9/11 is due to those you believe are ‘Muslims’ ?
Do you truly believe that?
If Aboriginals did not have a idea as to what nationhood is? Nem, and is not into ownership, if you could elaborate and give us some idea as to what is your interpretation by this idea, do you mean ownership is not good for the humans?
don. Please read my comment to Fair Dinkum above yours. I have put in some examples of what you request.
I have simply put up what I have learned. As for my interpretation of the meaning of ownership – without that concept their could be no property rights or individual freedoms.
I agree that freedom & prosperity is rooted in an adherence to certain principles but no A. D. Nation/State has ever been connected to the SOURCE per se: Living off a family fortune can hardly be deemed desirable, let alone virtuous.
Berry, I could write a whole book on what has befallen us as a species not just the various ‘races’ of Mankind – but who would bother reading it?
James, Great article, but I find it too wordy and deep for my comprehension.
Nemesis, the same goes for you.
I read them (article and comment) twice, because I felt really dumb not being able to glean substance that resonated with me.
So I gave up.
When things get complicated, how about we strive for simplicity.
Australian values?
How about the Golden Rule. Do unto others……..
I’m a simple guy.
Nothing wrong about being simple.
Just think of all the centuries spent by all those geniuses trying to work it out and failing to conclude with an agreeable consensus and still killing each other.
I go along with;’ Do unto others ……………….”
(whether he said it or not!)
Unfortunately there are to many who want to ‘do others’ for their own self interest and agendas.
Nemesis quotes Mark Twain:
“There are two great events in life, first to be born and second to find out why…..”
From experience I tend to think Robert Schwartz is on to something.
https://www.amazon.com/Your-Souls-Plan-Discovering-Meaning/dp/1583942726
BTW it is one explanation as to what some people (clairvoyants for example) connect with; ‘ the soul’s plan’………………It is already known and logged in ‘The Cloud”. (in computer geek terms) (in real terms……. connecting to the human spirit/s)
The lesson to be learned? Try; “do unto others…..”.
There is another handy hint: “do not judge, lest thy be judged…….”.
(I take it that is referring to a ‘spiritual judgement’)
After all, we would be in a pickle if we could not opine that a ‘bastard and thieving killer warmonger ‘ is a ‘bastard warmonger killer thief’.
.
Phil, most of us at some time in our lives have been poor readers, myself included. It is from practice reading books and having an encyclopedic dictionary handy, that the persistent poor reader will become a good reader. Our civilization has been made to devalue the book – the most easily accessed source of information and learning. Buy some books and start learning things you never thought possible.
Australian values are found in the media. The same place Australian governments find their policies. The same place we go to for moral guidance along with movies, television shows and advertising.
Human values, on the other hand, are found in nature. As in Natural Law: unchanging moral principles. Unchanging being the key word because the word change is just a polite term for manufacture. And manufactured is all media and legislation. Legislation is why Australian society is in such an advanced state of decline.
As natural law is the only law humans need there is also only one rule humans need too. The golden rule: do unto others as you would have do unto you.
Pretty simple.
One law and one rule is all we need. But as our addiction to media is too strong that’s not enough. We want more. Bigger houses. Luxury cars. Flasher clothes. Better jobs, more pay. Higher edudoctrination. To be fair the media does do one thing well. It tells us what it is doing to us.
And we line up every other year, after year, for more of the same ever-changing Australian values.
Michael. There is no such thing as ‘Natural Law’ on which Mankind can build a civilization. Without the concept of morality and laws based on the Ten Commandments, Western Civilization would not have eventuated. There are laws in Nature that tend to be immutable as well as uncontrollable by Man, but the Law of the Land, such as English Common Law, comes from a process of evolution through a judicial and governmental system – it therefore, cannot be naturally occurring.
Instead of some nebulous concept of ‘values’, how about having a more OBJECTIVE test – like testing for the IQ of a prospective immigrant.
There are plenty of IQ tests that avoid cultural concepts so that a person’s actual ability to use their mind to solve problems can be tested. There have also been many essays done to show a correlation between a national average IQ and its wealth. The lower the national IQ the less successful the nation.
The average Australian IQ is 98. Allowing immigrants with higher IQs into the gene pool will lift the national IQ level. Those immigrants with higher IQs also have the ability to assimilate into a society much easier and will likely be more productive citizens.
So, who in the Hell would think it would be a good idea to import a bunch of uneducated, violence prone tribal morons with no skills and limited ability to learn a new language? The average national IQ of Somalia is 68 – (sixty eight as in 68). That is the AVERAGE – so 50% of the people have an IQ that is even LOWER.
Enjoy your ‘multicultural success’ Melbourne.
Perhaps the fact that people are actually wasting time debating ‘Australian values’ is indicative that the ‘debate’ has already been lost.
So, what government in the Hell would seek to increase the prosperity level of the people?
Uneducated, violence prone, tribal morons ? Sounds just like Canberra.
The idea of I. Q. testing being used for anything other than specific classroom tasks leaves many questions begging. I realise that the “thought police” are already lurking everywhere but how could any self-respecting soul be expected to give them anything ?
I have a dog that IQ is as understand of a three year old child, although she is of low intelligence compared to the average human being, she has great value to me.
The low IQ of some classes of people still have a capacity to contribute to society.
Many high IQ people are a menace to society, personnel such as those working in corporations as Goldman Sachs, are no doubt high within the IQ status, yet for many are little more than a criminal organization except for some such as Turnbull.
Don, we’re discussing immigration, although I’m happy you and your dog get along so well.
Yes, the low IQ of some classes of people still have a capacity to contribute to society – but do we need to IMPORT THEM? Isn’t it more likely that they will become part of the permanent welfare system? Or, are you thinking of employing them in some menial work such as picking cotton? That option has been tried before and there isn’t much support for it in the general population.
Although many high IQ people are a menace to society, that is a separate issue called criminality, which should be dealt with as a separate issue rather than be afraid of anyone with a higher IQ than the average.
Don, there are IQ tests available on the internet that you can take to determine your IQ. Nobody will know the results but you, you may surprise yourself with the results. Actually, I wish everyone would take a few IQ tests to aide themselves so that they don’t fall victim to the ‘Dunning-Kruger’ effect.
I did some of those online tests.. Terry
i dont believe theyre credible. last one said i had an IQ of 122.
Have you done any? do you think theyre accurate? if we did limit our immigrant imports to high IQ only, what would be the cut off point ?? also, what about ones that were born here with low IQ – do we export them too, and to where?
maybe we should only import migrants with money – and good looks too. and no shorties or fatties. Hell, thats a whole new debate! how much money .. how tall, how fat..
cotton picking is all done by machine now, but cotton chipping.. or weeding, was still done with a hoe when I used to do that around Narrabri/Wee Waa, along with indians, pakastanis, europeans, afghans, others I couldnt guess at.. and black, white and brindle locals as well.
some of the best days of my life. – the money wasnt the best, but someone had to do it.
The Beagle is a immigrant so I am discussing immigration, also you are a import Shulze from a ancestry called Germany, I hope you are not referring to yourself as the victim of the Dunning Kruger effect?
I note you seem a superior type of bloke, have you heard of a shortage of menial labor in fruit and agricultural labor? never mind the cotton.
What we do not want in Australia is a ideology of the superior race, as a import from a certain part of Europe, after all although I sympathize with the superior race whom lost WW2, the fact is the leader, a house painter of menial talent lead Europe into devastation, to be clever is not the same as intelligence.
What is disturbing to me is how many individuals in authority are below intelligence expectation, the population of Australia is not that bright, just look at its history.
It is obvious Shultz you are above average intelligence, can you give Gumshoe readers what your IQ is? as many who having looked at the IQ tests are conscious enough to know the IQ test is fallible, a objective condition to purport what is supposed to be is far from the truth, some do not want to believe same deal as the lie detector.
You’re evidently not up on the fact that the so-called “welfare” system is in a state of collapse, that all the Kings horses & all the King’s men…………………………
Satire alarm!
As difficult as it may be for some people to discuss objective admission requirements for entry to Australia (perhaps a minimum IQ of 98, the national average), reviewing admission thresholds for something like an Australian University is quite common. Such things as a minimum Australian Tertiary Admission Rank is often used. The admission thresholds help prevent a university from making a really bad decision about who to admit. The same concept can be used for admission to Australia.
As far as understanding ‘Australian Values’, we are already going down that road as there are schools that can help people from other cultures to understand various diverse ‘Australian Values’
i grew up naively believing oz was a land that did value the egalitarian “fair go” ideal – that is hardly a nebulous concept – a five year old can innately determine if they are being treated fairly or not. Now I dont believe it ever was a true aussie value, not really, it was just something we said to make us feel good.
to do what we have done to other countries, to destroy their societies, their homes, their lives, we have a moral obligation to provide them somewhere to live, surely, or are we really bereft of any humanity at all? do we have no soul? no conscience?
if we do not want a multi cultural society, perhaps captain cook should have been told not to bother coming here in the first place, and perhaps if we dont want people fleeing bombs coming here, maybe we should just stop bombing them.
if australia suddenly suffered some sort of catastrophe.. say it just disappeared..someone pulled a plug around alice springs somewhere and it began to sink beneath the ocean, to be completely sunk.. Im damn sure – even those who complain the loudest about immigrants would expect, and demand as their right, from other countries, other cultures, to be let in to live their lives on dry land, claiming after all, it is the human thing to do.
I do like what Phil simply said,
Ex NZ PM Muldoon had a thought.
He observed that kiwis moving to Australia raised the I Q of both countries.
One problem with those talented with high intellectual attributes raises a true family related experience from the 1950’s that is a problem for Australia.
There was a baby delivered with the assistanc of forceps.
It was a difficult birth and the doctor commented that the injury was such that the child would either be brilliant or retarded intellectually.
In due couse the doctor was shown to be correct on both counts.
When maturing the boy could not tie his shoelaces and had to concentrate to turn a handle to open a door etc.
However, it was reported to my parents when at the end of his secondary education he was dux of his state in maths and science related subjects.
Then the yanks grabbed him and he ended up at Houston helping sling things into space.
Need I mention as well; operation paperclip in the US?
Need I again mention the Jindivik pilotless aircraft?
There are many other examples of our useless politicians failing Australians and Aussie ingenuity.
Traitors!
What this country needs is not necessarily high IQs, but streetsmart indivduals with common sense and a pound of patriotism, not seen since WW1 and WW11, whom (?) would have our present lot of traitors ……………. !